Deniz Perry: Making Scientific ADHD Info Accessible

Episode 7

July 12, 2022

This is episode seven, and today I'm talking with Deniz Perry, an ADHD creative who focuses on delivering authentic info in a fun format for other ADHDers. As a biochemical engineer who spent her whole life working in biotech, her passion is to make scientific info accessible to fellow ADHDers, support neurodiversity awareness, and explore her own late diagnosis.

Show Notes


Deniz Perry


Refocus Your ADHD Brain course

Links and show notes:


Deniz Perry: I always described it as, oh, I live in a haze. Or details just like pass me by. I would walk by someone, uh, thinking, who knows what I'd be thinking in my head. And wouldn't, you know, recognize it's a friend passing by. So I always thought that I live in a haze and that was just my thing in my personality.

Jesse: Hey, my name is Jesse J. Anderson, host of the ADHD Nerds podcast. The show where we talk about living with ADHD, and have some fun along the way.

Jesse: This is episode seven, and today I'm talking with Deniz Perry, an ADHD creative who focuses on delivering authentic info in a fun format for other ADHDers. As a biochemical engineer who spent her whole life working in biotech, her passion is to make scientific info accessible to fellow ADHDers, support neurodiversity awareness, and explore her own late diagnosis.

Jesse: But first.

Jesse: I'm excited to announce my Refocus Your ADHD Brain course coming in early August. This cohort-based course is based on my upcoming book, Refocus. And will help you build the tools and strategies to make the most of your unique brain. You'll work alongside a like-minded community of others with ADHD to become an ADHD pro and build your brain strategy playbook.

Jesse: Sign up now to get the early bird pricing at that's R E F O C U S dot C C as in cohort course or cool cat. I can't wait to see you there. Now let's get to the show.

Jesse: Deniz, thank you for being on the show. It's great to have you here today.

Deniz Perry: It's excellent meeting you.

Jesse: Yeah, I'm really excited to hear more about your story. We've connected on Instagram and sort of, you know, we're both creating different ADHD content on there. And following each other and commenting on each other's stuff. And, uh, yeah, I'd love to kind of dig into your, your own history with ADHD.

Jesse: What was life growing up with ADHD, whether you knew it or not, and when did you kind of find out that you might have ADHD.

Deniz Perry: So I did not know, growing up. Um, so, everything kind of came into focus through diagnosis, looking backwards. A lot of people probably go through that experience. But true kind of focus, the ADHD came too after I met my husband. He's my second husband and I met him six years ago. And we had so much in common in a ridiculous feeling of comfort in harmony, but in the sense that we're both kind of messy in the same ways, and we're not bothering each other or, um, time blind, this is a big issue for me.

Deniz Perry: So I just, I always described it as, oh, I live in a haze. Or details just like pass me by. I would walk by someone, uh, thinking, who knows what I'd be thinking in my head. And wouldn't, you know, recognize it's a friend passing by. So I always thought that I live in a haze and that was just my thing in my personality.

Deniz Perry: So then I met my husband. And he was already diagnosed. He was already on medication and some of the things started clicking and I'm like, well, just read about these things. Cause I worked in biopharmaceuticals and I'm interested in medicine. And, uh, kind of through that, digging through just like, uh, slowly like the lights started shining and I was like, wait a second.

Deniz Perry: This is me. So that, that kind of, the kind of self-diagnosis that I went through. And then, you know how, when you get to a point, you realize, little story points pop up from your past, started connecting. I just remembered that I was seeing a counselor, uh, in grad school in Boston, and I was kind of depressed, I think, during uh, transitions, I just fall into this over analysis of what's going to come next.

Deniz Perry: And if you don't know what's happening next year, it's just a little bit, those are the times that I feel a little bit, um, I don't know how to describe it. It's not true depression. But it feels frozen in time. So I started seeing the school counselor and she said, you might not be depressed, but maybe you have ADHD if you want to get tested.

Deniz Perry: And I'm super dismissive. I just like, am the worst, when it comes to these types of conversations, I was like, I am totally depressed. Let's just please tend to that. And then, um, that memory just opened up. Someone told me, a professional, about ADHD and I dismissed them in the past because I was focused on what I thought was, you know, real. Well, I, after that, I guess, uh, last year, so I'm super newly diagnosed, a baby diagnosed.

Deniz Perry: Last year, I thought, Hey, I might as well. Just go through and have a formal diagnosis, uh, if I wanted to have medication or something and that's what I did.

Jesse: Nice. And what, um, I know you told me before for your diagnosis, you've used one of those online sites for going through that process. And I know there's been a lot of, kind of, I hear questions from people like are they legit? There's been articles that kind of questioned some of the stuff.

Jesse: And I'd love to hear, just like what your experience was like, was it a positive experience? Do you recommend people do that? If they're, cause diagnosis is so hard to get. Yeah. Like what was that experience like for you?

Deniz Perry: Uh, for me, it's like checking a box. So it was also, it was during pandemic. Everyone was doing online. You know, my doctor was online as well, so it didn't feel like I was doing something sketchy or separate the rest of the medical community. Um, it was kind of easy. You just do like a test and then you talked to professional.

Deniz Perry: In terms of, is it, does that replace, uh, in-person diagnosis? They, they are a business, right? They want you to get diagnosed because they have other services. After you get diagnosed, you could start doing therapy through them. They could do medications and stuff like that. So, In their best interest that you do have ADHD, you know, as opposed to not.

Deniz Perry: So that's, that's kind of a judgment a person can decide if they want to go through that or not.

Jesse: Right, right.

Deniz Perry: If you don't have access to services or if it's too expensive, I would totally go through it. It's just one more data point for you to decide if, if you're gonna keep going or, if that's something that do feel like maybe this is not for me.

Jesse: Right. So after, after you figured out that you had ADHD and, and maybe after your diagnosis, I wonder if you went through, well, I know for me, I went through kind of a mourning period and like just this major aha moment of looking back like, oh, if I had only known I would have done this differently and yeah.

Jesse: What was that like?

Deniz Perry: It actually still unfolds after a year. It's very interesting. Right. Um, interacting with people online has become also another step in that unfolding for me, the details people post, um, unlock, weird memories. Some people are really good especially, you know, posts like yours. It's very pinpointing a special place.

Deniz Perry: That you never even think about until you read it. And then do you just, you're just thrown for this loop of, uh, memories and emotions that unlock your thinking. How about that was that this other person that's just going through the same thing. Online community's amazing and mind blowing how specific people can be.

Deniz Perry: And compared that with the, um, you know, medical diagnosis criteria with like seven entries or something, do you make careless mistakes? What's up time management or whatever, whatever the questions are. I'm not, I'm not going to pretend to know the questions. Um, even though I read them so many times,

Deniz Perry: But, um, like, yeah, it's, it's, it's an unfolding thing that sometimes I feel like I was lucky not to because I would over analyze it and probably hold back from certain things like skills or the more you learn, right. I also have illness, anxiety, which the more I read about the disease, the more it becomes a part of my anxiety. And, um, even if I don't have it, I can easily pretend to have it for a tiny bit. So with ADHD, if I had known earlier, I wonder if it would be a worse outcome for me, because I actually did okay in life.

Deniz Perry: I had like a nice family. They didn't say that I was stupid. They were supportive. Um, my mother probably an undiagnosed, uh, ADHD or herself, all these memories just going back. I was like, oh, how did we not see that? Right. Um, but she was nice and she was always there for me. I remember many Sunday nights me, like not having done my homework, just to the point of tears thinking.

Jesse: Yeah,

Deniz Perry: how am I going to do that? And then she'd be like, okay, you'll do the math and science and I'll do some of your homework. Like this woman actually sat down to help me finish my homework. Just maybe bad parenting, but that's what I needed at the time.

Deniz Perry: And without knowing she really did, did a, you know, fantastic job supporting me without making me feel like a horrible person.

Jesse: Yeah, I don't, I don't think that's bad parenting at all. I think that's great. There's I think so much of, you know, so much of like the school system, particularly with homework is built around, you know, that it's, you know, it's the round hole and we're the square peg and like, we're just not really fitting with what they expect us to do.

Jesse: Cause I did the same thing. I, I basically did no homework.

Deniz Perry: Why didn't your mother do it for you?

Jesse: Well, they definitely were, my parents were helping out with like projects and stuff, but at some point I just stopped telling them, I, I don't remember I probably just, I probably lied and just told my parents like, oh, they don't really do homework in high school, or I was doing it in school or I don't know what I said, but I definitely, I just sort of stopped doing it and I would do well with testing, but the actual, like homework.

Jesse: I just didn't do any of it. So I'd end up with like Cs and Ds in classes. Even though it was, I was learning this stuff. I like, I've always been a really good learner, but actually doing that busy work, which is what it felt like to me, it was like, yeah, it was no good. And I think it's great for parents to find ways like that.

Jesse: Like if you have to do the homework for the kid, but you know, they're still learning it. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think that's great.

Deniz Perry: So I grew up in Turkey, so I went to school in Turkey too. And, um, I'm just living like a whole different life with different systems, thankfully. Um, you know, just learning through my son and my daughter is little. But school seems so much nicer here also generational, right? Maybe it's nicer in Turkey too. Um, a lot of more accommodations are available.

Deniz Perry: We know a lot more about people's learning styles and things like that, but still, it really depends on the teacher and the person. You just need to be lucky to get to the point. I posted recently about how my son's current teachers amazing. She's never bothered me about anything. And she, when, when I got to meet her, she was just like, oh yeah, he's a little bit passionate about some stuff and there's this and that.

Deniz Perry: And then she said, don't say any of this to him. Cause he's doing just fine. You know, she knew how to take care of the situation.

Jesse: Yeah. I definitely find, uh, I've got three kids and two of them in elementary school. And. Yeah, that's the same. It's, it's amazing how much the right teacher can make a difference. And it, it, it just feels like some, some teachers seem to get like how like, oh, this kid is doing things different and that's okay.

Jesse: And I can kind of adapt things to work with their brain. Um, yeah, cause we've definitely experienced, we've never had a terrible teacher with either our kids, but we've had some teachers where it's like, well, we'll get through this year and we'll support the kids at home as much as we can. Uh, but then there's been other years where like the teacher clearly like, oh, this teacher really gets it and like is really helping.

Jesse: Our kid feel like they are smart and that they're excelling and doing great in class. Which is great because as with ADHD, that that is so much of what we need to hear. That encouraging message like that, that just like brings out the best in us. If you tell, if you tell me I'm doing awesome, then it's going to make me be even more awesome.

Jesse: Like I'm going to go, you know, uh, over and above to try and prove like, yeah, that's right. I am doing really great at this.

Deniz Perry: That's so true. Can I tell you something?

Jesse: Yeah,

Deniz Perry: So similarly to teacher thing, um, currently I'm working for a person who is like the director of our team and he leads by only positive, reinforcement and it's amazing. It's like a parent, the sweetest person ever, but in his position, he could also be, you know, half and half.

Deniz Perry: It's it's, It's so weird. I've never, I worked for really nice people. I've never worked for just like a horrible person, but this is really, I feel like I just, I can never work for someone else because now I just only get, you know, I don't know how he does it. He just does it. But everyone's interaction as I can see is with positive reinforcement.

Deniz Perry: So imagine his kids, right? The kind of. That he gives to his kids what a great parent to grow up.

Jesse: Right, right. Yeah. I've definitely found that to be true with managers. Like there's. Specific managers there's a manager had, uh, for like four years. Am I it's still at the job. I'm still at, he's not my manager anymore, but he, there was something about like, he just understood how to manage my brain. And so, whereas I've always felt well, not always, but often felt in previous jobs, like I was battling my manager or like, I, they, they didn't understand that for me.

Jesse: I, I find in my job, I can be really critical of things, but it's because I want it to be the best. And so, like, I find I can, I find problems with things because I want to fix them and I want things to be better. Yeah. And in the past, I've had a lot of managers that they don't get that.

Jesse: They just think like, I'm, I don't know.

Jesse: I'm like I'm trying to cause problems or like just criticizing things or complaining or whatever. And this manager that I had for several years, like he understood. Jesse's just trying to get the best out of this. And so he did a great job of like redirecting my passion or whatever it was. And so we created really great products.

Jesse: It was, it was awesome.

Jesse: And so, yeah, I think a manager can have such a great effect if with that positive encouraging sort of message. So speaking of like, uh, careers and stuff like that, I'd love to hear more about how you got to where you're doing. So what, what exactly is your job? It's like biochemistry, science.

Jesse: I don't totally understand it. So I'd love to hear from your words, what that's like.

Deniz Perry: I'll give a quick, quick summary. So I went to school for chemical engineering. I always wanted to do bio, um, ended up, doing an internship in. Uh, Biogen in Boston, it's a biopharmaceutical company. I learned cell culture there, and then I moved to Maryland for my current job.

Deniz Perry: So I worked in the lab doing, you know, uh, cell culture development, small bioreactors and things like that. three years into that, I switched to more of an informatics role. So I would, I started developing apps for all the data coming from the experiments I was in R&D.

Jesse: Okay.

Deniz Perry: And I did that for 10 years, which moved me to more kind of a UX role.

Deniz Perry: User experience, role, or usability, or, you know, prototyping design and things like that. during that time also, I also did like Six Sigma and businessy stuff and projects in the organization, all that stuff. It's, you know, I feel very fortunate because my job paid for so many, uh, trainings for me over the years.

Deniz Perry: I worked there for so long in different roles. Um, and the last three years I moved to the IT organization and, uh, my subgroup is called Tech Innovation. So it's just a bunch of people doing interesting stuff and I get to do the communications and I get to do the portfolio. Uh it's uh, it's like a perfect ADHD job.

Deniz Perry: There's colorful stuff. There's always interesting things and people who know interesting things want to talk about new things. So, um, it's been an interesting journey for sure, because it started from like hands-on science to here. And I've always wanted to, I always enjoyed putting out some sort of communications because when you work in science, it's complicated and weird right? You have to communicate it to different levels of in business.

Deniz Perry: And I've always been bothered by looking at these, um, you know, ADHD or is it just check out easily, if what I'm looking at is too many weird words, I'll just, uh, go into the dream world or whatever.

Jesse: Like sometimes, uh, because I'm trying to learn a lot about ADHD, I'll be reading studies and stuff and I'll get into a certain point in the study. And then I just sort of eyes glaze over.

Deniz Perry: Methods.

Jesse: Ooh, this is. Yeah.

Jesse: Exactly. is not my world. I'm not trained in like, knowing how these, all these research papers are done.

Jesse: And it just feels like, oh, there's a lot of bureaucracy required for this study. And I'm sure that sort of the same sort of thing that you run into a lot.

Deniz Perry: Yeah. So I just became passionate about not ever putting out communications that are garbage for their audience and I've practiced it all through my career. And when I came to my current group, there wasn't a lot that I needed to put out, but there's a need inside of me that wants to do slide sets. I cannot explain.

Deniz Perry: It's like a monster. Who wants to make a slide set? So when I started the account, instagram account, that's what just came out of me. And then I

Deniz Perry: was ah, I can do whatever. This is not a job. I can use whatever color I want. Uh, you know, if there was like a freedom and it's just became kind of an obsession, to be honest in the past six months.

Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. I find like what you said, kind of taking that complex stuff and making it. Oh, I don't know what the word digestible or like, easy to understand for people that don't know. Maybe don't know all those words or don't have the time to read through it. I feel like a lot of what, yeah, the content you create and similarly, the content I create, I feel like a lot of that is what I'm doing is I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to learn the science and stuff to really understand a lot of like the complexity behind that.

Jesse: And then sort of distill it down into like something more practical and easy to, so that you can understand this thing without having to read the 30 page study and that I can translate it to a tweet or like you you'll have like your slide decks. You'll have like several slides in a row that really explain, uh, this topic in a way that's easy for people to understand and then people can learn.

Jesse: You know more about how their brain works, which then once you learn that it makes it so much easier to just like, adapt your own behavior in life and kind of cope with the symptoms or behaviors or whatever you want to call it. And yeah. So like what, why, why did you decide that when you were going to do these kinds of slides and stuff on Instagram, that you were going to be on ADHD and not for example, on like the, uh, bio chemistry or whatever.

Deniz Perry: Oh, that's a great question. Uh, one, which I don't have an answer to. I'm just going to improvise here, it. I started by thinking, Hey, I want to put out something I've been through so many trainings. Uh, I have all this information in my brain that I'm not actually actively using. So that's where it started.

Deniz Perry: I was more like, do people want to learn about project management? Do, what do people want to learn about something useful? So my earlier posts, I don't know if I haven't archived those non-specific ones are a little bit more, kind of project management it, or, um, I don't know. very short amount of time showed me that what I really wanted to do was a little bit more focused.

Deniz Perry: And then during that time, I was also reading tons of ADHD stuff. And then I started following ADHD accounts and I thought, um, some of them were great and some of them were missing or misleading information. So I was like, huh, you know, what I can do is I can actually read stuff, understand it, and make summaries of it and feel good about delivering scientific, you know, checked out information.

Deniz Perry: And I started in a very kind of clenching place where I was like, I had my earlier posts. I have like sources lists. Now I throw like the URLs here and there. No one's, know, going there and reading it and that's okay.

Deniz Perry: It's just like, it's been a kind of a process of learning what Instagram really is and what what's acceptable and how much information can people really digest.

Jesse: Yeah, I find it's kind of a tricky balance, figuring that sort of stuff out because. Um, I, I, similarly, I like, I I try to make sure that everything I say is either backed up by like hard evidence or studies or whatever, or it's my own experience. And I declare it as such.

Jesse: And I think it's, it's tricky to know, um, because you could have like the. Like you could post the studies themselves on there, but no, one's going to read them and no one's going to share them. And no one's going to learn anything from them. Like there's like that line you have to figure out like, how can I, I want, you know, I want to help people learn about this and of communicate these things.

Jesse: I'm learning about ADHD and how can I do that in a way that isn't off-putting because it looks like too science-y or too complex, but also isn't just like, I've heard people call it like pop psych, where it's just like, not really based in anything. It's just sort of like make you feel good, like pretend, psychology or like some people have called like toxic positivity.

Jesse: Where it's like, make everything really happy and positive, even though that's not most people's reality. And yeah, it's, it's an interesting, um, I, I mean, I think that's partly why probably you're drawn to it, why I'm drawn to it. Cause it's almost like a game of like, trying to figure out how can I best, how can I best learn this so that I can help people in a way that works.

Deniz Perry: Whenever I have a post out it's, it's like I read multiple things first about, uh, one thing about ADHD. It could be about sleep or whatever. So I just give myself some pure just looking around and reading. And before I post, I try to find actual studies so that I can put the links them. And I try to make it into a, like a digestible theme for the post itself, because there's so much, and I find myself writing really big blogs and, um, they look a mess and then I work on them to make, make them just really short and sweet.

Deniz Perry: And I just realize people don't really need the whole background information of every single thing, but you know, maybe I kind of want to, you know, when I tell a story, you just go so far back that it's not needed. No one needs it. And it's just like you were saying, it actually hinders the whole process. No one's going to be able to learn anything from that.

Jesse: Right.

Jesse: Cool. So I know lately you've posted about life as an ADHD couple, uh, for me, my, my wife is neuro-typical and I'm ADHD.

Jesse: So that's a whole world of navigating. And for you, you're both ADHD. So what I'd love to hear kind of, what that's like kind of dealing with two of those, a radiant brains as my friend calls it. Uh, in the same household and how you manage, you know, RSD. I imagine, you know, it's difficult enough when we have one person that experiences it in our family.

Jesse: So yeah. What, what is that like being married to someone with similar sort of brain with ADHD.

Deniz Perry: Yeah, are uh, ADHD isn't the same necessarily, but similar for sure. He's medicated most of the time and I'm never medicated. Some things are just, you know, classic meme type of stuff. Absolutely, we don't want to pay bills. We don't want to do the appointments and stuff, but whoever is more motivated about that will take over kind of naturally or by both of us, uh, procrastinating, you know, one of us will have to do it like an example is the cars, the cars, emissions test. We didn't do it to one of the cars and, uh, we realized four months late. It's just like, we didn't do it. It's only 10 minutes away. We talk about it all the time.

Deniz Perry: So then online, we, we realized we can actually push it another like three months and I'm like, yay, we have another three months. We didn't do it. It's like these things happen. These are just like, sound like just random meme stuff, but it's real life. Bills don't get always paid on time.

Jesse: Do you have any strategies that sort of help with managing a household with yeah, two ADHD brains?

Deniz Perry: I mean, we sometimes do this. We both clean up in just like these, uh, bursts. We try to implement like, hey, let's just do the downstairs before we go upstairs every night, something like that. Where we were like a good, uh, team when we want to do something together, one of one of us would, uh, encourage the other one in a, like a team spirit.

Deniz Perry: So we just get all riled up and do it.

Deniz Perry: But also I think what works is there is like this level of compassion that have done stuff, uh, or piles of things. From my point of view, at least for example, my husband's been super nice and he's painted our whole house since we moved which also means in an ADHD household, paint, runs out, or, you know, you have like the, that what I'm looking at right now is a half painted wall.

Deniz Perry: How long is it going to be like that? I don't care, you know, it'll be done. So there's just like not a big push or a feeling like, hey, you haven't done this. Um so there's, things get done in their own time. And sometimes we would like, hey, you know, we need to do this or whatever. I think that's just kind of like the main thing.

Deniz Perry: There's like a under, current of little compassion happening. Um, he'll he leaves stuff out, like milk on the counter and I'll just put it. And then if I leave something, he'll put it. We don't really talk about it that much anymore because you know what? It's just milk. If it's get ruined, buy a new one.

Jesse: Yeah, I was just gonna say for me, I think there is a, I wouldn't say compassion, I'm not going to say that there's a lack of compassion, but there, there is a, sometimes like my wife and I just don't understand each other because our brains are different. And so like, like those examples, like me leaving out the milk or whatever, like my wife is going to see it.

Jesse: And like she understands more now, you know? Cause we talk about me having ADHD and stuff, but we were married for 10 years before we found out that I had ADHD. And there is just like, she just didn't understand what my problem was. And like, for example, really early on in our marriage, uh, at some point I can't remember it.

Jesse: She would, she would know exactly what it is. I think it was a hanger or something. There was like a hanger that I left on the floor next to like the front door. And it's like this, like, of course trivial little thing. And every day I, she would look over and see me step over the hanger and not touch it. For like, I think she counted up for like three or four weeks before she finally put it away.

Jesse: And she was like, what, why would he never put this hanger away? Um, and then there's similar things of me just like trying to understand neuro-typical brain. Cause that doesn't make sense for how my brain works, but there is the, there's obviously the other advantage of like, she takes care of the bills.

Jesse: And so like that is great. Like I don't worry about mail, remember to mail in the electric bill and things like that. It reminds me, I posted recently about like some joke tweet about people like, hey, people that understand finances with ADHD, like how do you do it? And the number one reply I got was people that said marry an accountant or marry somebody that's good with money, because like, that was how they were able to figure out their finances is they had a neuro-typical spouse that just sort of knew how to take care of it, which I thought was pretty funny.

Deniz Perry: Yeah, we're definitely not that. I think just like the periods of, we need to do this one thing kind of leads us to, motivate each other in a way. And like I would do stuff and then he would be like, oh, she's doing stuff. I'll do stuff too. It's just like a weird kind of, um, synergy. Can I say synergy without sounding like a weirdo? Gosh. Um,

Deniz Perry: we struggle with structure and schedules, but we want the best, obviously for the kids, you know, we do our best, but we're not, we're not that family that operates in a, you know, regular cadence, like some people like, oh, it's bedtime, it's bedtime or whatever.

Deniz Perry: And I'm like, when did the kids bathe last? I don't know. Like, it's like, we're just trying to do our best. Everyone's healthy. That's great. Everyone's get taken to wherever they need to do it go. Um, I am super into not being, uh, adding extra stress. So any kind failure during the daily thing? I just, uh, I don't care. Maybe just because of the age. I don't know. The older I the less I care, you know?

Jesse: Right. Like some things just aren't as important as we make them out to be. Especially, yeah, when we're younger, it feels like we have to have everything, or we're told that we have to have everything kind of lined up and then you kind of get a little bit older and you're like, ah, that actually doesn't matter all that much.

Jesse: That's we, that it's fine to avoid yet doing this thing every single week or whatever it might be. Um, cool. So I think that is a great time to switch over to shiny objects. And I'd love to hear just like one, one or two recommendations of something that has been, uh, something you've been enjoying lately. Maybe it's a movie or a TV show or music, or maybe you've got a fidget toy that's just a perfect or a, I don't know, a new fancy pen. What is something that's really been, uh capturing your, uh, interest lately?

Deniz Perry: Okay. I have two, uh, one is a TV show that I love. Uh, it's Mr. Mayor. It's a Tina Fey show. Um, but Ted Danson's in it. I don't know if people like comedy, but that's the only thing that I can consume 20 minutes before. And if it's funny, then I can watch it.

Jesse: nice.

Jesse: yeah, I haven't seen Mr. Mayor, but I keep seeing the promos for it and I love Ted Danson. Um, my wife and I just wrapped up the good place, which was excellent. So good. great ending some, so many shows, like don't stick, the landing at the end?

Jesse: but the good place was so good. I love also how they evolved every single season. So that was a great show. I'm I'll have to add Mr. Mayor to my list because Ted Danson is a fantastic national treasure.

Deniz Perry: Absolutely. Did you watch 30 rock? Because that's kind of, I watch anything Tina Fey does, but also Ted Danson was in it. So it was just like so excited to watch it and it delivers, uh, there's some episodes it's just beautifully done. Oh, so good. I'm excited for you. If you haven't watched it.

Jesse: Yeah,

Jesse: Awesome. I, I I'll need to check it out. Uh, I have seen 30 rock. I haven't seen all of them, but my wife loves 30 Rock. She's seen all, all the seasons several times, I think. So.

Jesse: Yeah.

Jesse: We'll have to add Mr. Mayor to our watch list and we just finished The Good Place. So now we've got like a slot to fill with the new show.

Jesse: So maybe that'll be the one.

Deniz Perry: Do it. Um, and then, um, my second, uh, shiny object is a play clay for kids. Uh, first bought it for myself. Unlike Play-Doh it doesn't go hard. but it turns out it's a great fidget toy for a person who sits at their desk and needs something in their hands. And the, you know, creative stuff comes out of it. It's my thing right now, I ordered myself a whole box of it and hid it from the kids because.

Jesse: Yeah.

Deniz Perry: I don't do other fidget toys necessarily, but I think this is, this might stick.

Jesse: Awesome. You've got to find the one that works for you. So that's great. Um, I'll do a quick, uh, shiny object. I don't know if you, uh, do video games at all. I'm a big video video game fan. Um, and I just recently finished a game called tunic, which is sort of this wild mix of, uh, Zelda, and Fez, and Elden Ring, and Monument Valley.

Jesse: So it's kind of a weird combination of all these different games, but it has, it's got a very cutesy kind of look, very kind cartoon look, but it's very, it's full of mystery and puzzles. It's the kind of game where I had a little notebook because I was trying to solve some of the mysteries in it and like sketching down different puzzles and stuff like that.

Jesse: So it's, if you're into particularly the game Fez, like it's very, even though. It's not the same type of game. It's not a side scroller, but it has that same sort of, trying to figure out this mystery.

Deniz Perry: I'm actually writing these down.

Jesse: Awesome. It's yeah, it's an awesome game. Highly recommend checking out Tunic. It looks very simple, but it looks are deceiving.

Jesse: So it's, there's a lot going on in that game.

Deniz Perry: Um, Untitled Goose Game is being played in my household right now, but it's in row. So fun. I love that art style. And, uh, obviously I had to like read about the studio that produced it to see if there's other ones. Um, it turns out this was like a side project or something that took off and I looked at their other games and this, this looks like the best.

Jesse: Yeah, that's a done by a Panic. And they're a really interesting company because they do, they do like software for different things, for like, uh, you know, doing websites and things like that. But then they also have started getting into the game world. So they did Firewatch, which is an older, independent game that I loved.

Jesse: It's kind of like a narrative game. And then yeah. Then they did Untitled Goose Game, which is just hilarious that my kids love that one. And yeah, I love that one too.

Deniz Perry: Cuz you have to be horrible person.

Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And they actually, that company Panic, they just released a console. It's kind of like a little Game Boy, but it has a crank on the side, almost like a fishing reel.

Jesse: Like there's a crank interface. I dunno. I ordered one. I don't have it yet, but I just, they just announced they're shipping soon. So I'm, that may be a future, a shiny object for me to share on the show, but yeah, it's such an interesting company. The stuff they do.

Jesse: awesome. So we'll have links to all of those in the show notes. If you want to check those out and, yeah. Thank you so much for being here. This is great.

Deniz Perry: It was awesome meeting you and chatting with you as well.

Jesse: Yeah. So where can people follow you? If they want to see the content you're creating and stuff like that?

Deniz Perry: Well, I'm on Instagram and my account is at dt.perry. And soon I will have a more rambling YouTube channel for longer content, but that is to be, done so.

Jesse: Awesome. Well, we'll have uh, links to those as well. And, thanks again for being here. This is great.

Deniz Perry: All right, have a good one.

Jesse: That's our show. Thank you so much for listening. I especially want to thank our VIP patrons, Luce Carter, Richard Stephens, Todd Barnett, and Dan Ott. It helps me do this show and the other work I do, so thank you so much for the support.

Jesse: If you want to support the show, you can go to that's, J E S S E J. You can always support the show for free by leaving a review in Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or the podcast player of your choice. Full show notes and transcripts are available at